Questions from my GRACE Live conversation

Responses from Pete Singer and Brian Lee

On February 24, 2025, I participated in a GRACE Live Conversation on Resources for Recovery. You can watch the conversation below:

Viewers were invited to submit questions by email when we were unable to answer them all.

This post is an effort to address the questions received by GRACE in the weeks following. The questions have been edited for length and clarity, and to remove identifying names and markers in an effort to offer anonymity and respect privacy.

Each question (Q:) will be followed by a response (R:) from Pete (PS) and myself (BL).

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Resources for Recovery Questions & Responses

Q: I was excommunicated from our organization after I tried to address concerns with the board and leaders and recently released my story openly. The amount of abuse that has been endured by people in this ministry has just been devastating to me. I am now more than ever being reached out to as a safe place for people to share their stories with me. It has been difficult but also just making me realize the depth and magnitude of the abuse.

Do you have any advice or guidance on how to even start with unraveling all of this? Not just for myself but also for those who have come to me. So many think theirs was an isolated incident. However the culture is “that’s just his personality” or they wear the “attack” as a badge of honor being persecuted. So much of the abuse is out in the open and it becomes a joke to everyone involved and is viewed as normal.

I myself have been affected but not to the degree as some people. It can be pretty overwhelming when I stop and think about the reach of these leaders that really extends into nations. I have an incredible community supporting and also in therapy/counsel as well. I’m just really learning all of this language and the extend of how damaging this all is. I think my biggest struggle is helping to expose but also being so aware of how individual this process is. Any help is appreciated.

R (PS): I’m sorry that you have endured this situation. Thank you for being a safe place for others who have been impacted. It truly is overwhelming to see the extent of the problem. You wonder if you can really bring about any change or if your voice will ever be heard. Please know that your voice is heard by those who have gone through this situation, and it is heard by us.

As far as unraveling all of it, that could be a challenge. There is so much here. One place to start may be this article. It may give some guidance on how the behavior of leaders at the organization lines up with Scripture.

You mentioned being involved with therapy/counseling. This can be helpful as well to unravel the situation. Unraveling all that has occurred may take years. Some of the survivors may take the path with you, and others may resist. A lot depends on where they are with their healing journey.

Please remember that you are not responsible for how people respond to this situation. Some may seem complicit now, and only later will they come to realize that they too experienced some level of abuse. Remember that it is not just his personality or some badge of honor that if many people say they have been harmed. You are right to reject both of those as lies. I think as you process this situation for yourself in therapy and in other areas of your life, you will be able to better determine how to balance public exposure with awareness of this as a personal and individual experience. As you go through that process, it is so important that you take care of yourself. The therapist may be able to help, or a peer support group. Close family or a trusted faith leader who truly understands this may also be helpful. I hope that helps.

R (BL): I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. It can be so hard to experience it for ourselves, then even more so when we learn or realize the depth and magnitude of the abuse.

I’m glad you’re finding help in therapy, and hope you feel like a resource and ally to those who are coming to you for help as well. It can be a heavy burden to shoulder.

Now to the unraveling: I’ve learned to manage or temper my expectations in hoping for systemic change from organizations who show no awareness or desire to own their behaviors and actions. When it comes to a place where they wear accusations and allegations as a “badge of honor,” there may be little that can be done from the outside without ownership and repentance from the inside.

In my personal experience and in working with others, I’ve found the most helpful thing to pursue is my own work toward healing and wholeness. I can only manage my own anxiety, pain, and hurt. That is mine to do. I have learned that entering anyone else’s space of anxiety is not helpful. Entering someone else’s pain and hurt can lead to empathy and compassion, but I need to be aware of my own capacity to do so.

If you find yourself in the place to serve as a resource to others, or where others are coming to you with their stories and pain, make sure you are taking care of yourself. Don’t take on more than you can carry.

Also, try not to minimize your own experience by comparing it to someone else who may have “had it worse.” Your experience of abuse is yours, it is valid, and it is worth its own grief and healing.

The process is certainly unique to the individual in the way it moves, the time it takes, and the journey that is taken. However, it is also communal. One of the big lessons I’ve learned is that healing will require connection and community. Judith Herman’s latest book, Truth and Repair, speaks to this beautifully.

Do your own work, yes. And, invite others into the process and recognize that they can also be part of it.

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Q: We started a church hurt process group from a church that was spiritually abusive. So many of us left there to attend this new grassroots church, and yet one executive leader:

• barely let us have the church hurt process group,

• made sure we didn’t get any announcements anywhere about it,

• wouldn’t call it church hurt so it was labeled Process Group,

• after about 6-7 times meeting, wanted us to turn the group into a book study, since she wasn’t sure and couldn’t articulate it but didn’t feel comfortable that we were still meeting as is to process our pains and wounds.

What are your thoughts why we got so much push back from her? Why would she want to hide our group?

FYI, there is contention between the past spiritually abusive pastor and our new church as he shares a side of his story that people at our new church knows is lies.

R (PS): This sounds like a very hard situation. I think the process group is a good idea, as it provides people who have experienced a similar harm the chance to help each other through, to bear one another’s burdens. It is so important that we help each other as we are able.

I don’t know specifically why the leader resisted the idea of a group that addressed church hurt. I think we can all agree that people have been harmed at churches. It could be image management, wanting to avoid the perception that this particular church was involved in harming people. It could be a desire to deny the reality of church hurt. It could be that others in leadership are pressuring her to make this decision. Whatever the reason for resistance, I hope your group is able to continue meeting to process through the harm that occurred and continues to occur.

R (BL): I’m so sorry. For all of you. And, I’m glad you found each other and were able to form a small community of those wanting to be honest about what happened and process it together.

As Pete said, it may be impossible to know why the leader was so resistant. Anything I offer would be a guess, and Pete offers some good guesses.

My question for you is this: do you need the church or its permission to continue meeting as a group to process? Is this something you could continue to do together outside of the church context for as long as you find it helpful?

Is this leader someone you have enough relationship with or trust in to ask that question directly? Or to challenge them to examine their resistance and discomfort in “allowing” you to continue exploring you pain and wounds?

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Q: What do you recommend concerning how much to specifically describe the spiritual and sexual abuse publicly? I have experienced both (I am a pastor) and I have been pressured and warned to say nothing. I have gone public and the consequences were profoundly negative on me—it was worse than the abuse itself.

R (PS): I am so sorry that you have experienced this abuse and that the consequences of speaking up were even worse than the abuse. When someone shares a harm they have received, the response should be care, not more harm.

As far as specificity, a lot depends on you and on the audience to which you are speaking. It may be helpful to process through how much detail you want to share with a therapist. This will allow you to process through feelings related to the abuse and how those feelings still impact you today. Please know that there is not a mandate to share more than you feel ready for.

The audience also determines how much is shared. If the audience includes children, includes others who may be activated by what you say, or other similar variables, you may want to limit the level of detail you provide. If some type of content warning was issued or there is a known expectation that people will be sharing their stories of abuse, then you may choose to share more detail, but you do not have to. This is your story, and you have the power to choose what parts of it to share.

R (BL): What a thoughtful question about such a delicate topic. I’m so very sorry you’ve experienced both spiritual and sexual abuse—it is wrong, evil, and should never have happened to you.

I’m sorry that going public and sharing about it went so terribly for you. And unfortunately, that is too often the case for whistleblowers.

I agree with Pete that context will be key in terms of how and how much you choose to share. It may be appropriate to share all the details with law enforcement, legal counsel, or in therapy. Not so much with a minor.

Legal counsel is far outside of my lane, so I won’t try to address it, except to ask if you’ve pursued any? I imagine it could be difficult to name an individual or location without some kind of support or representation.

Another consideration would be your own expectation or hope in sharing publicly. Is there a specific response or result you’re looking for? Apologies from abusers are rare, and unfortunately, repentance even more so. If you’re looking for justice, then the legal route is likely the best way to do so. If the system is not toxic, it would make sense to report the abuse to them in search of accountability measures against the abuser. If it is toxic, then they will likely “circle the wagons” to protect the abuser and the system rather than to care for you as the abused.

I’m so very sorry, and hope you feel the agency to make a choice that is best for you.

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Q: My denomination has made decisions and changes over the past few years that I cannot agree with. They have become about rules and forms you have to sign, instead of grace and love. I have recently resigned my membership after 48 years. I am past being angry now. Just very very sad. Would this be spiritual abuse?

R (PS): It’s hard to say whether it would be spiritual abuse, but it is clear that something about these changes did not rest well with your spirit. You have taken action by resigning your membership, which was probably a good move if the changes were so contrary to what you believe.

R (BL): My understanding of spiritual abuse is that it occurs when a power differential allows someone with more power to harm someone with less. This can happen through manipulation, influence, power, and control by using spiritual language, tools, and processes. While it can be targeted at individuals, it can certainly happen in a system as well.

Without more information, it’s hard to determine whether or not what you experienced is spiritual abuse. Denominations have every right to make changes to their policies and doctrines. And, individuals should also have every right to choose whether or not they hold membership within that denomination.

If it is ever implied or explicitly stated that you must comply and stay, then that moves toward spiritual abuse. The language of power and control that strips individuals of their agency is abusive. Your mention of moving toward rules and forms and away from grace and love sound like a pull toward a more toxic culture.

Resignation should be your right to exercise. And, it is also worth your grief and lament, especially after 48 years. The anger rightly reveals your personal values and passion that you feel were violated, and the sadness reveals the great loss you’ve experienced.

I hope you find a way to honor those feelings as you continue to find a new way forward.

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Q: I have often wondered about GRACE and if/how you work to intervene or advocate for abuse victims. While a part of me longs for someone… anyone… to stand up for us and fight for us, I am now leery of trusting anyone. The few “friends” we asked to help ended up betraying us even more; they were swayed and manipulated by the abuser against us.

How do you safeguard against that?

So many approached our abuse as though it was a standard "conflict" with 2 equal parties… and it involved an egregious story of grooming and estranging our 18-year-old away from us… then marrying her off. I would welcome the opportunity to hear more about how your org could help people like us… and how you protect yourself from being manipulated too.

R (PS): I am very sorry that this happened. It sounds horrible.

I think you are right to be leery about trusting. No one can demand trust. It is something that is earned over time by showing consistency and dependability. You are right to point out that it is not a standard “conflict” when there is a power difference between the parties. It is that power difference and the misuse of power that is the hallmark of abuse.

There may not be much that GRACE as an organization could do in the situation you described. We don’t provide therapy or personal supports, but more work to bring about systemic change. In order to address the situation with the church or ministry, they would need to agree to work with us, and it sounds unlikely that they would agree to this. We can’t compel the organization to work with us, release records, be present for interviews, give accurate information, or other things that are essential to a consultation, investigation, or other response from GRACE.

I hope we protect ourselves from being manipulated. Our team has extensive training and experience in understanding abuse dynamics, including the behaviors of offenders and organizations that may not be acting in good faith. We also approach things from a team perspective, consulting among our team before we move forward. This is an additional safeguard. I would like to say that these steps make us immune from being manipulated, but I can’t. Remaining aware that we could be manipulated is another safeguard. We remain vigilant and acknowledge that we too could be manipulated.

R (BL): As this question is directed toward GRACE, I will allow Pete’s response to speak for itself, except to say that I’m so sorry. I’ve had similar experiences. Betrayal by those you called friends is on another level.

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Do you have other questions?

If you’ve watched the Conversation and have a question of your own, I’d love to hear from you in the comments.

Thanks as always for being here, especially if you’ve made it this far. I’m grateful for you, your attention, and for the invitation to your inbox. I don’t take it lightly, and hope you found this helpful.